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Mils or MOA which is right for you …or why bigger is better by Frank Galli

© by Sniper’s Hide

Mils or MOA

This debate is never going to end, but we should agree on the facts. Every day we see the uninformed arguments how one angular unit of measurement is better than the other. The truth of the matter is, one is not better, they are just different ways of breaking down the same thing.
Personally, outside of the disciplines like Benchrest Shooting and F Class, I think Minutes of Angle should be retired. We have bastardized the unit to the point people have no idea a true MOA is not 1″ at 100 yards, or 10″ at 1000, but 1.047″ and 10.47″ at 1000. If you round this angle, you create errors at the longer distances. Today we shoot a lot farther than before, 5% of error compounding at an extended range will cause a miss. In fact, this is one of the main reason your ballistic software does not work. You default to MOA when in reality your scope adjusts in Inches Per Hundred Yards.
Shooter MOA or Inches Per Hundred Yards (IPHY) is not a True MOA, and yes it does matter when companies mix them. Having someone question how IPHY is different when they don’t understand we don’t use 1 MOA or even 10 MOA to hit a 1000 yard target is frustrating to explain. If we consider a 308 as a point of reference, we are looking at almost 17″ of variation between the two units of adjustment.
We can quickly point to the adoption of Mils here with the Military to demonstrate the ease of use, but then the Americans reading this will argue how they think in Inches and Yards as if Mils only work with the metric system. Mils are base 10 and unfortunately Mr & Mrs. America thinking in fractions is nowhere as simple.
3600 inches is 100 yards, 1/1000 of that is 3.6″ and adjusting in .1 mils means we moved the bullet .36″ per click at 100. See what we did there, we moved the decimal point. Some people believe an MOA is a finer unit of adjustment. Failing to note that: .3 Mils is 1.08″ at 100 yards. Contrary to popular belief you can get a Mil Based scope that moves the reticle .18 Inches per click. Mil based scopes usually adjust in .1 Mil Increments; however, they do make scopes that adjust in .05 Mils.
While Milliradians were added to the metric system many years ago, it was never designed to be a metric only unit and works outside the metric system as this is an angle. Every angle has a linear distance between it. You should be ignoring this fact and using the angle vs. picking a linear value to adjust your correction. If I am shooting 873 yards away, saying the bullet 6″ off the target is neither honest or accurate. You’re guessing; in your mind, it looked six inches away, but what if it was 9″? Using the linear value is more work, why not just adjust the angle?
Minutes of Angle started out like that too, but unfortunately, companies took shortcuts and ruined it for everyone. It was easier to manufacturer 1″ vs. adding in the .047″. Long range back in the day was between 400 and 800 yards. Read any old school book on ballistic, and it rarely goes past those ranges in their examples. Today we are shooting beyond 1000 yards, so it matters more than ever, you have to take it into account.
Defaulting your program to MOA when you are using IPHY is a significant point of error. JBM online is a great place to demonstrate this as you can include both MOA and IPHY in the output. The same amount of adjustment is accomplished with two different values. Mix these numbers, and the result is a miss. Did you dial 40.1 or 38.3 MOA?
I highly recommend you map and calibrate your MOA scope to confirm it’s actual value. It works both ways, not every MOA based scope is TMOA, some are SMOA. The compounding error is a lot bigger than .47 inches.
One is not more accurate than the other. I can hit the center of any target using either unit of adjustment. Using JBM the same way we can see that both correctly move us to the target. The difference is less than a bullet width. I have no trouble zeroing or hitting the center of a Shoot N C target keeping me squared away.
Which unit of adjustment is right for me?
This is the ultimate question; it should not be up to someone else to answer it for you. Communication is your number one consideration.
What are your friends and fellow competitors shooting?
You want to be able to communicate and understand what a fellow competitor is talking about when he walks off the line. You can convert using 3.43, by multiplying or dividing the competing unit of adjustment against the other. That will give you a direct conversion.
12 MOA / 3.43 = 3.5 Mils
4.2 Mils x 3.43 = 14.4 MOA
Next, you have your reticle choices. You will find more versatile options when it comes to Mil Based scopes vs. an MOA one. That is changing a small amount as manufacturers adapt. But a reticle with 1 MOA hash marks is not as fine as a scope with .2 Mil lines in it. You now have to break up an already small 1 MOA into quarters. The Mil based scope is already breaking up the Milliradian for you.
Pick the reticle based on your initial impression as well as your use. You don’t need a Christmas tree reticle to shoot F Class. You don’t want to use a floating dot bench rest scope for Tactical Style Competition. Put your intended use into the proper context.
There are a lot of articles about the nuts and bolts of Mils and MOA. You can dig deep or understand we are using the angle and there is no need to convert to a linear distance. A Mil is a Mil, and an MOA is an MOA (Unless it’s not because you didn’t check) Today I don’t even teach, 1″ at 100, 2″ at 200 yards, 5″ at 500 yards. It’s an unnecessary step and confusing to a lot of people. Not to mention, it’s not right, that is IPHY, not MOA.
We match our scope reticle to our turret adjustment, so at the end of the day, “What you See is What You Get.” It matches what we see in the reticle so we can dial the correction on the turret. A super simple concept that allows the shooter to use the calibrated ruler 3 inches in front of their nose. That calibrated ruler is called a reticle taking away the need to “Think” about the adjustment, you just read it.
If the impact is off in any direction, you measure with the reticle and then translate that reading directly to the turrets. 1 Mils is always 1 Mil, and 1 MOA in any direction is a 1 MOA correction on the turret.
If you have not made the change to Mils, consider it. You will find it’s much more intuitive. You do not have to be a resident of Germany to understand it, and you do not have to use it with Meters. All my data is in yards, and mils directly translate to whatever range you use.
Sniper’s Hide mission is to uphold the traditions of those who came before us by expanding on the Science of Long Range Shooting while developing the Art of Precision Rifle Marksmanship.

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A 410 Revolver? I bet that makes a scene when it cranks one off!


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War Well I thought it was funny!

Take a fucking hint, people!


 

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Well I thought it was funny!

This reminds of a Female Relative of mine!

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Something you will not see everyday – A Steyr Fischer 1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer British Marked, Blue 22 Bolt Action Rifle & Pecar Champion 4x Scope, MFD 1903-24 C&R 7mm Mauser (7x57mm)

Steyr - Fischer 1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer British Marked, Blue 22” Bolt Action Rifle & Pecar Champion 4x Scope, MFD 1903-24 C&R - Picture 8
Steyr - Fischer 1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer British Marked, Blue 22” Bolt Action Rifle & Pecar Champion 4x Scope, MFD 1903-24 C&R - Picture 9
 The Mannlicher-Schoenauer rifle dates to 1903 when the 6.5x54mm cartridge and both military and civilian rifles to shoot it were introduced. Austria and Greece adopted the 1903 military rifle and the 6.5×54 cartridge that same year.
The 1903 Mannlicher rifles and carbines were the last designs of Ferdinand Ritter Von Mannlicher, who died the next year, and his friend Otto Schönauer who designed the exceptional rotary drum magazine intrinsic to all Mannlicher-Schoenauer rifles. Mannlicher-Schoenauer rifles and carbines were exclusively manufactured at Oesterreichische Waffenfabrik Gesellschaft Steyr in Steyr, Austria.
The Model 1903 rifle as the first of the famous M-S Rifles and Carbines and it established the basic design of all the models that were to follow. The rifles were equipped with flat “butter knife” bolt handles and rotary magazines.
This rifle is a custom model with a 22” barrel chambered in 7.5×57 Mauser, apparently built by Max Fischer of Berlin. The rifle features a “butter knife” bolt handle, German Pecar Champion 4x Scope, and a set trigger which provides an astoundingly light and crisp 1/4 pound trigger pull.
The rifle is in about Very Good overall condition with about 80% of its finish remaining.

Steyr - Fischer 1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer British Marked, Blue 22” Bolt Action Rifle & Pecar Champion 4x Scope, MFD 1903-24 C&R - Picture 3
Steyr - Fischer 1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer British Marked, Blue 22” Bolt Action Rifle & Pecar Champion 4x Scope, MFD 1903-24 C&R - Picture 4
Steyr - Fischer 1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer British Marked, Blue 22” Bolt Action Rifle & Pecar Champion 4x Scope, MFD 1903-24 C&R - Picture 5
Steyr - Fischer 1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer British Marked, Blue 22” Bolt Action Rifle & Pecar Champion 4x Scope, MFD 1903-24 C&R - Picture 6
Steyr - Fischer 1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer British Marked, Blue 22” Bolt Action Rifle & Pecar Champion 4x Scope, MFD 1903-24 C&R - Picture 7
Steyr - Fischer 1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer British Marked, Blue 22” Bolt Action Rifle & Pecar Champion 4x Scope, MFD 1903-24 C&R - Picture 8
Steyr - Fischer 1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer British Marked, Blue 22” Bolt Action Rifle & Pecar Champion 4x Scope, MFD 1903-24 C&R - Picture 9
Steyr - Fischer 1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer British Marked, Blue 22” Bolt Action Rifle & Pecar Champion 4x Scope, MFD 1903-24 C&R - Picture 10

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Smith & Wesson Model 10 Victory Us Navy Revolver Caliber 38

Smith & Wesson MODEL 10 - VICTORY US NAVY REVOLVER CALIBER 38 SPECIAL C&R OK - Picture 1
Smith & Wesson MODEL 10 - VICTORY US NAVY REVOLVER CALIBER 38 SPECIAL C&R OK - Picture 2
Smith & Wesson MODEL 10 - VICTORY US NAVY REVOLVER CALIBER 38 SPECIAL C&R OK - Picture 3
Smith & Wesson MODEL 10 - VICTORY US NAVY REVOLVER CALIBER 38 SPECIAL C&R OK - Picture 4
Smith & Wesson MODEL 10 - VICTORY US NAVY REVOLVER CALIBER 38 SPECIAL C&R OK - Picture 5
Smith & Wesson MODEL 10 - VICTORY US NAVY REVOLVER CALIBER 38 SPECIAL C&R OK - Picture 6
Smith & Wesson MODEL 10 - VICTORY US NAVY REVOLVER CALIBER 38 SPECIAL C&R OK - Picture 7
Smith & Wesson MODEL 10 - VICTORY US NAVY REVOLVER CALIBER 38 SPECIAL C&R OK - Picture 8
Smith & Wesson MODEL 10 - VICTORY US NAVY REVOLVER CALIBER 38 SPECIAL C&R OK - Picture 9
Smith & Wesson MODEL 10 - VICTORY US NAVY REVOLVER CALIBER 38 SPECIAL C&R OK - Picture 10

 

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Useful Shit Well I thought it was funny!

Another reason on why one should not leave the toilet seat up!

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Mossberg 590A1 Retrograde – A Birthday Present from Mossberg to Us by CLAY MARTIN

590A1 Retrograde looks striking with walnut furniture.

Mossberg turns 100 this year; ten consecutive decades of leading the charge in high-quality American firearms. And on that centenarian anniversary, they have decided to make something special, the 590A1 and 500 Retrograde editions. Fitting, I think, that they chose these shotguns. While Mossberg has created every type of firearm under the sun in the last hundred years, including a new pistol, the name Mossberg is to most of us synonymous with shotguns. As well it should be. Since its introduction in 1961, the 500 series has sold over 10 million shotguns. So here’s to you Mossberg and 10 million more.

Old school rubber butt pad.

When the Retrograde models where announced, I was given the option of the 500 Persuader or the 590A1 for review. And that was a tough call, as I think it will be for you as a buyer. I really like how Mossberg approached the Retrograde concept, with the option of the 500 or the 590A1 set up slightly differently. The primary difference is the barrel length, though there are material differences as well, that we will elaborate on shortly. The 500 has an 18.5-inch barrel, with a 6+1 capacity. The 590A1 has a 20-inch barrel, full-length magazine tube, and an impressive 9+1 capacity. Mossberg understands the combat shotgun market, and it shows. Those are the two most common barrel lengths, with die-hard fans of each. Right from jump street, I appreciate that Mossberg made an option for both camps.

Classic 590 tang safety.

I opted for the 590A1 and I don’t regret that choice. But before we get into the nuts and bolts, what is the Retrograde concept? It is basically an old school look while retaining all the technical advances shotguns have made in the last 100 years. In this case, the look means a Walnut stock and forend, complete with an old school brown rubber butt pad. And the furniture change means a lot in this particular case. Complete with the corncob forend, the Retrograde hearkens back to another time. It wouldn’t be completely out of place as the Old West was ending. For some, it is going to remind them of a classic WW1 trench gun. ( Yes, I know that was a Winchester. I’m talking about feels, not rigid historical accuracy.) For me, it takes me to another place not that distant, but still before my time. When I was a young Marine, I remember seeing lots of pictures of 80’s era Jarheads running a wood stock shotgun like this one. Not the recruiting pictures they stage, but real pictures on the wall from my units. The scattergun in those days was a staple of ship boarding operations, and much more common in general use than now. Lots of weird stuff happened in the 80s you won’t find in any history book, but the memory lives on with the old hands and the pictures. The Retrograde to me says awesome hair, flight suit, and a really bad attitude cause Ronnie Reagan told us to. Holding it in your hands, you can almost hear the rotors spinning on a Huey and “boarding party to the flight deck” coming over the 1MC. That alone is worth the price.

Corn cob fore end with barrel heat shield.

It is also probably fitting that the 590A1 says that to me since the A1 part is due to modifications Mossberg made to accommodate the Mil-Spec 3443E test. This is a for reals military grade weapon, and it feels like one. When I first pulled the Retrograde out of the box, I was kind of surprised by how heavy it felt. The longer I messed with it, the more I thought it couldn’t be just a change from polymer to wood furniture. I compared it to my 590M, and there was a noticeable difference. A look at the Mossberg spec sheet confirmed it. The 590A1 features a heavy walled barrel, specifically requested by the US Navy. I don’t know a single person that can claim to have shot the barrel out of a regular 590, a task I would think impossible. But if it was a concern, no more. The overall weight change does have an upside though. The 590A1 is one of the most robust feeling weapons you will ever pick up.

Heavy duty finish, 590A1 standard.

Another mil-spec feature, the 590A1 series has a heavy parkerized finish. Despite its beauty, this shotgun was meant to be abused. Snow to salt water spray, this bad Johnson was built to take punishment.

Adjustable ghost ring rear, top view.

True to the 590A1 family, the Retrograde edition has all the same bells and whistles. It has a heat shield on the barrel, which is actually a huge benefit if you run your shotgun hard. It has adjustable Ghost ring sights, with a best in class front blade. Even in low light or a snapshot, you aren’t going to miss that big orange front. And it has a bayonet lug, compatible with the M-9 bayonet, in case things go absolutely pear-shaped.

Bayonet lug side view.

Bayonet lug bottom view.

Performance wise, I could not be happier. The 20-inch barrel is a fixed cylinder bore, which is perfect for the intended use. Out of the box, the Retrograde put lead on target at 100 meters with slugs, in a respectable group. I’m not what you would call a fantastic slug shooter, and it still got the job done for me. I ran a few of the notorious Federal Grand Slam turkey loads through the 590A1, the same shell that made me quit after 1 in the Mossberg Night Stick. With the rubber butt pad and overall weight, the Retrograde tamed them nicely. You could easily run a box out of this shotgun and be none the worse for wear. Most importantly, the 590A1 patterned buckshot nicely, and exactly where you aim it.

A front sight you aren’t likely to miss.


The action, however, that is what blew my socks off. Being mostly unfamiliar with the 590A1 model, I actually called Mossberg to see if they did something special for the Retrograde. Because it is smooth like butter on the pump. They did not. This is just normal for the 590A1’s. Which is absolutely amazing, even fresh out of the box. Most pump actions require about 1000 rounds before they smooth out, and I still haven’t seen many that will match it. None made in the last two decades. This is my new gold standard for pump actions, and I actually feel sorry for the one I have to review next.

590A1 redefines smooth cycling.

Overall, this is a very cool gun. If you were going to have one shotgun in your life, this would be my recommendation. Between the unique look, robust build, and Mossberg reputation, I don’t think you can beat it. If you want one, get it now. You might have to wait another hundred years if you don’t.

It even tamed the Federal Grand Slam Turkey loads.

MSRP $902
For more information on Mossberg Shotguns visit website.

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Well I thought it was neat!

April Fool Notice!

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A H&H Royal' Double Barrel Rifle

Now you can guess why they cost so much!